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Rich Patti · Joined: 12 May 2008 11:50 am Posts: 10

Bill asks questions so here you go:

Regarding quote 1 and 2. I would appreciate it if you did not speak for me or tell others what YOU think I think. I am quite able to speak for myself - thank you.
Answer:
Someone has to speak for you Bill, since you can not speak for yourself without distoring the truth on the FT and bending it to where you think it should be.
next:
I actually haven't read all the spin on the FAIR TAX proponents web site. I preferred to look up the actual bill that is pending in the US Senate. That bill is s1025. You may read it and compare it to what you are reading in someone else interpretation of it.
Answer:
First Bill, the actual bill is HR 1025 in the House and S25 in the Senate, not s1025 as you write. If you are so in touch with the legislation I would hope you could at least get that part right.
Not only have I read the bill,HR1025, I lecture on it. The info on the FT site is part of the 23 milion in research that supports it. But you dismiss all that with the wave of a pen as "SPIN". Arrogant as they come, Bill. The webite existis to support the grassroots efforts like myself, not some spin doctors. When you slam the site you slam all of us hard working folks out there giving our time and effort to get HR1025 passed. I know this from the inside view of the site, unlike you who choses to label the whole site as spin and dismiss it in favor of your twisted interpetation of HR1025, S25.

Regarding quote 3: Could you please describe what hidden costs are paid to workers in Mexico.
Answer:
Non to workers in Mexico, but yes it is the costs involved to sell the products here in the US. The payroll of the sales people, the overhead of the stores. What, do you think it all goes away just because you see the product as an import?

Are you telling me that Zenith pays social security taxes on employees in their mexican manufacturing facility.
Answer
No, see above. But how do you ever expect the manufature of products to come back here when we tax exports more than imports? Explain that one.

By the way, I use Zenith because they were the last TV manufacturer to have a plant in the US but now have moved it to Mexico.
Answer
See above comment re imports etc. The FT will bring products and factories back here in droves with NO corporate income tax. Spin that.

I believe if you refer to your research you will find that payroll taxes are part of the 22% hidden tax? Another part is corporate income tax but the income is only taxed if it is returned to the US.
Answer
Yes but all these companies sell here and have payroll and corporate taxes here. When costs go up overseas, we pay it here in the form of higher prices. When payroll costs go up overseas on products we sell here, again we see higher prices. Why do you not see that? The current tax system you defend is why the workers are overseas, so you should be in support of the FT as it will bring that dynamic back to the USA.

Bill Pelland · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 07:34 am Posts: 372

Rich Patti writes:

First Bill, the actual bill is HR 1025 in the House and S25 in the Senate, not s1025 as you write. If you are so in touch with the legislation I would hope you could at least get that part right.

Heading of the House Bill:

These were the two bills introduced in 2007 for the fair tax and I have been reading the senate version.

H. R. 25
To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 4, 2007
Mr. LINDER (for himself, Mr. BOREN, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. MCCAUL of Texas, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. CULBERSON, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. PENCE, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. CRENSHAW, Mr. NORWOOD, Mr. FEENEY, Mr. DEAL of Georgia, Mr. PRICE of Georgia, Mr. POE, Mrs. JO ANN DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. TANCREDO, Mr. BACHUS, Mr. GOODE, Ms. GRANGER, Mr. PEARCE, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, and Mr. STEARNS) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means

Heading of the Senate Bill:
110TH CONGRESS
1ST SESSION S. 1025
To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the
income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service,
and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the
States.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
MARCH 29, 2007
Mr. CHAMBLISS (for himself, Mr. ISAKSON, Mr. CORNYN, and Mr. COBURN)
introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred t

Re: Hidden tax in mexico.
If the cost of the goods are say 50% to get it here from Mexico, then you will not have the 15.3% savings on labor for that part of the cost. Therefore the hidden cost would not be 22% as claimed. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 or 5 % tops.

I hope you are not waiting for those jobs to return home. The Fair Tax bill will not bring them home because the cost of labor is still much cheaper in mexico.

YOU SAY I AM DEFENDING THE CURRENT TAX SYSTEM! I don't recall that I have done that. The current tax system needs simplification and our corporate tax rate needs adjusting as well. I AM SAYING THE FAIR TAX SYSTEM IS NOT THE RIGHT FIX FOR THE SYSTEM WE HAVE NOW..

You say:

Not only have I read the bill,HR1025, I lecture on it.

.

I was thinking about saying something nasty about this but decided that just because you're impolite doesn't mean I should be.

You say:

Yes but all these companies sell here and have payroll and corporate taxes here. When costs go up overseas, we pay it here in the form of higher prices. When payroll costs go up overseas on products we sell here, again we see higher prices. Why do you not see that?

What I see is that you do not understand that the payroll going up overseas is irrelevant as that overseas company does not pay the 15.3% payroll taxes you claim as the SAVINGS from the fair tax scam. The majority of the payroll involved in the cost of the final good is not paid in this country and so will diminish the hidden cost that is recoverable. WHY DO YOU NOT SEE THAT?.

Bill Pelland
Murchison, TX

David Nelson · Joined: 12 May 2008 12:27 pm Posts: 27

Rich, you are not helping by being rude, and you certainly don't help when you claim you lecture on the FairTax but don't know the bill numbers. I agree with Bill on every point here except where he says jobs won't be coming back because labor is cheaper in Mexico.

Bill, you are correct that a portion of the reason for outsourcing jobs is labor costs, but it has been anecdotally proven that the combination of corporate and payroll taxation has at least as much bearing on corporate boards deciding to move factories etc.

DavidFL10

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